Gary Kroeger joined the Saturday Night Live ensemble in 1982 for Season 8, Dick Ebersol’s second year as executive producer of the show. The previous season had ended with the departure of actors Christine Ebersole and Tony Rosato, as well as supervising producer Michael O’Donoghue. Oh, and Gary’s castmate Eddie Murphy became a superstar.
These days, you can find Gary online at GaryHasIssues.com (a must read) and on The Gary & Kenny Show on YouTube (“Good for a few laughs,” he says). I cannot thank Gary enough for answering my annoying questions. And a big shout-out to last week’s interview subject Kevin Kelton for putting me in touch.
Gary Kroeger today.
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What were the highlights of your SNL years?
That's a hard question to answer. SNL is a weekly cauldron of hopes, dreams, successes and failures. The absolute best moment was the moment Dick Ebersol and Bob Tischler asked me, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Brad Hall and (writer) Paul Barrosse to join the show in two weeks. That was September of 1982, and we had been performing a "best of" revue of our comedy from the Practical Theatre Company. My wish from the Practical show was to get an agent and book a commercial so I could pay some bills. Next thing I knew, I was driving down Lake Shore Drive with Julia and we felt like we'd won the lottery.
That's not exactly what you asked in terms of "highlights,” but the feeling cannot be equaled. As for the show, there were many highlights but I suppose for me it was to have a really good show. My first good show was a few shows into 1982 with Howard Hesseman hosting. We committed to the sketches by learning the lines and made them theatrical and not cue card dependent. I was very proud of that.
Doing Walter Mondale was fun, especially when I opened with him doing "Live from New York…” I created another character I named Walter who trimmed people's nose hairs professionally.
And there was Ira Needleman, a dentist who made a rock video to get a date. Needleman was a hit.
And another original character called El Dorko, who was mercilessly picked on but always got the girl. Those were sketches where I had my hand in every aspect, and they went over pretty well.
Who were some of your favorite fellow cast members, hosts, writers? Was there a particular writer you glommed onto?
I'd never pick out favorite cast members. I liked everyone. Brad and Julia were among my closest friends, and so they hold a special place. And Tim Kazurinsky was a guiding force. I was in awe of Eddie Murphy and Joe Piscopo, too. Mary Gross and Robin Duke remain good friends. Billy (Crystal), Marty (Short) and Chris (Guest) used to include me in their sketches, so I think very fondly of them. And they did some of mine, and I was always grateful for their talents. Paul Barrosse was the writer who came with us, and we formed a clubhouse of sorts to try and bring our brand of physical satire to the show. Kevin Kelton was and is a mensch and wrote some of my best opportunities. So did Eliot Wald, Andrew Kurtzman and Nate Herman. Jim Downey was the oracle of TV comedy wisdom.
How did you and Julia Louis-Dreyfus (who wasn’t a huge star then), Mary Gross, and Jim Belushi avoid the chopping block when Dick Ebersol assembled the “All-Star Cast” for Season 10 (1984-85)?
Hard to say because I didn’t avoid the chopping block myself the year before. I didn't survive year one, but Brad Hall went to Ebersol and made the case for me by telling Dick that they never used me well. Dick was persuaded and brought me back. The next year (1983-84) was a better year for me, and I finished the season with Needleman. I honestly think that gave me the momentum to get picked up to comprise the "base" cast to support Marty, Billy, Chris and Harry (Shearer).
No one was ever unaware of Julia's talent, and Mary had carved out a presence on the show that was really unique. I think she was the continuity that the show needed. Tim was not picked up, and I will never understand why. Brad did not have a good relationship with Dick Ebersol at that time. It isn't my place to conjecture or to be the voice of whatever happened, but I will say this: Brad is one of the most honest and outspoken people you could ever know, and he and Dick did not see eye to eye on how some things went down regarding what sketches did or didn't get on the air.
The 1984-85 cast. Clockwise from top left: Billy Crystal, Gary, Rich Hall, Harry Shearer, Christopher Guest, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Jim Belushi, Pamela Stephenson, Martin Short and Mary Gross. Photo most likely by Edie Baskin.
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I think the SNL opening used for Seasons 7 through 9 is still the best – the black and white anti-“I Love NY” montage, but the one they created for Season 10 was undeniably wacky. Did you get to choose your “business” for that, because I thought Peeping Tom Dude with the Binoculars was the coolest (I was an awkward high school senior at the time). And how hard was it to film that thing?
I liked that departure from the traditional opening. It wasn't the SNL “brand,” which I thought was more exciting. That season was going to stand out, and we all knew it before it even started. The opening did say (that).
To be honest, I didn't like my sequence because being a Peeping Tom is the last thing I wanted to be associated with. It wasn't exactly that, because I was just a guy with binoculars in NYC, but I still thought it was a little seedy. I'm sure I could have said no, but that was not my nature. I did what I was told back then. I'm thrilled that you thought I was kinda cool. It was the easiest thing in the world to shoot—probably no more than 10 minutes in front of a green screen.
Was there even a possibility that some of you guys might return for Season 11, or was it like, “Lorne Michaels and Franken & Davis are back and they’re cleaning house”?
There was never a chance of even a chance. Marty, Billy and Chris signed on for one season and they never considered a second year. Dick wasn't going to stay either. In fact, there was no SNL after that season. NBC was moving on and I think they were considering several replacement ideas, even wrestling (I'm not an expert on this). By the end of the summer, though, Lorne Michaels was coaxed back (or asked to be back, I don't know) and he would only do it if he started over from scratch. There was never a possibility that any of the existing cast would be asked.
What are your thoughts on the upcoming Jason Reitman movie, Saturday Night, about the very first SNL episode? Did you watch that first one when it originally aired?
I am of the first generation of college students staying home to watch Saturday Night Live. I was a huge fan of the show, although it was never on my radar as something I wanted to do. I've seen the trailer for the movie and I know enough about the people, the environment, the inside stories, etc. to know that there are elements of truth in the film. But it also looks like a Hollywood adaptation of a real story where moments are heightened, taken out of sequence, or crammed into fictitious moments to convey the essence of reality. But it's never how things really went down. I'll go. And the characterizations look appealing.
Have you been back to 30 Rock since you left the cast?
Several times, mostly because I've been to every anniversary show. I went to the 40th with my son and wrote about it on my blog Gary Has Issues. It was reproduced in several magazines because it was an honest backstage look at the show and my personal experience with it.
Do you still watch the show?
Only if the host is someone I want to see live. Otherwise, I wait until the next day and watch highlights. But, yes, I do still watch the show, and there has never been an era I didn't like.
Will you be attending the SNL 50th anniversary bash?
Probably not. I don't see any way to top the experience I had at the 40th. I'd like that one to remain my treasured memory because it was so special with my son. I'm not asked to participate in the anniversary shows, and so it's really just a ticket to the show and to be on the list for the After Party. Not that those things aren't fun, but… been there, done that. I love seeing people from my era, but I also still see many of those people. I suppose there could be that big picture of everyone that will be on the cover of some magazine, but even still, that doesn't quite match the effort required.
What are you up to these days?
I am busier in retirement that I was during a 40-year career. I mentor students and advocate for underprivileged kids, I do a fun podcast called The Gary & Kenny Show, I am deeply involved in politics, and I work with a team to create shelters for our homeless population. Recently, I started on a personal mission to re-join activities from my youth that inspired my careers that followed. I'm even working for my son in the early morning hours prepping food for a smoothie cafe. Obviously, it's not about the money, but for the experience of rediscovering habits from decades ago. It's a retirement project that I hope to expand to inspire other retirees to find ways to feel invigorated.
Who else would you like to see interviewed here? Do you have Eddie Murphy’s contact info?
I love every SNL-related interview, past and present. Actors, though, are overdone. I enjoy interviews with writers. Jim Downey has certainly done his share, but he has a perspective that stands the test of time. He saw every era, phase, comedic shift, temperament and style over decades in comedy. (Barry) Blaustein and (David) Sheffield from my era would be great interviews. I loved the one you did with Kevin. (LINK)
Who were some of your heroes that inspired you to get into comedy?
Easy. Red Skelton, Barney Fife (Don Knotts, of course), Dick Van Dyke and Charlie Chaplin. Good heroes, don't you think? I don't believe anyone has ever surpassed what Don Knotts did with Barney—timing, slapstick, subtleties, pathos. He was the Chaplin of situation comedy.
Later, I reminded Gary that he played Knotts-as-Fife on the “Opie’s Back” sketch from the Ron Howard-hosted episode. He immediately insisted it be added to his “greatest hits” playlist and rightfully so.
What was your favorite sketch during your SNL tenure (that you either appeared in or didn’t)?
I'd have to say “The Assassination of Buckwheat.” It was a perfect convergence of satire, character, comedy and relevant commentary on the state of news sensationalism. I was involved in some of the sketches that followed, such as David Susskind interviewing Buckwheat impersonators (I was one of them). "White Like Me" was another groundbreaking sketch with Eddie that I got to witness. (CLIP?) For me, Needleman will always be my personal highlight. It only aired once, has never been on a best-of revue that I know of, and yet people still mention the bit to me and even sing the song.
I’m putting together a “Best of Gary Kroeger” DVD/playlist. What sketches do I absolutely have to include?
Needleman, El Dorko, Mondale (there were several), Walter the nose hair trimmer, Donny and Marie (with Julia), the Faith Healer from our first show in 1982, “The Confession” with Howard Hessman, where he plays my dad. I come home to tell him that I'm straight and he’s devastated. There are some news pieces with Brad and one with George Carlin where I complain about "spot bleeding." Carlin calls me a moron after pointing out that I left the pins in my shirt.
I know I'm forgetting several. Oh, yeah. Playing Springsteen in an opening, and two sketches I did as Julio Iglesias. In one, Julio has a talk show called "In Praise of Women" where famous women's rights activists were his guests and he'd interview them while they sat on his lap. There was no reason for me to suggest that Julio Iglesias was that kind of sexist, but I didn't like his hit "To All the Girls I've Loved Before." I thought it was trite and reductive.
And my Alan Alda was pretty spot-on in a Joe Franklin Show with Billy Crystal! While we’re at it, toss "Four Minutes to Live" in there. Jim Belushi is my doctor and tells me I have four minutes left to live, and I get stuck in an elevator when I leave his office.
What is your all-time favorite SNL sketch and why?
This is cliche by now, but “The Van Down By The River." We all know it. We all know Chris from it. We all know the beats, the lines, the movements and the spontaneous laughter. It was a collision of writing, spontaneity, and Chris Farley doing one of those characters that only Chris Farley could do. I laugh as hard today as I did all those years ago. It's one of several performances, but probably the top one, where my heart aches knowing that Chris Farley is no longer in this world to bring his ferocious commitment to humor.
Is there anything else you’d like to say to our half a billion subscribers?
Thank you for reading and indulging my memories. I am proud of what I did there, but can also admit that I wish I'd been able to do more. When that was in my grasp, I just wasn't quite ready. C’est la vie. But I have no regrets because I get to have these memories and share them. They've been a gift to my life.
Gary and Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Donny and Marie Osmond, with Eddie Murphy as Gumby. It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas!